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Ken Ilgunas and David Dalton are reviewing each episode of the final season of Game of Thrones. Check the \u201cGame of Thrones\u201d category to list all of these posts.<\/p>\n
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David:<\/h2>\n
Mornin\u2019, Ken \u2026<\/p>\n
We just watched, I believe, the most extraordinary television episode ever made. It wasn\u2019t just the spectacle, which topped all the previous accomplishments of this series. It also was the drama. In the middle of all that destruction and death, it was the fates of our beloved characters that kept us mesmerized.<\/p>\n
I miss Varys already. The Hound did not deserve to die either, but at least he took his monster brother with him into the flames. So much for wondering whether Jaime would save Cersei or kill her. Instead he arrived just in time to die with her. Good riddance to Euron. Qyburn deserved a slower death, but as expected he was killed by one of his own creations.<\/p>\n
You know how much I have wanted this series to follow the trajectories of classical storytelling, with a satisfying and irony-free ending in which, on the whole, good triumphs over evil. With one episode remaining, we are on course for that. There was no way that Cersei was going to go down easy. She got her just deserts (with an enormous amount of unjust collateral damage). Much justice was done in this episode, yet much injustice was done in the process. At least three of the remaining characters \u2014 Jon, Tyrion, and Grey Worm \u2014 are greatly disturbed by this injustice. The camera spent a great deal of time on the suffering of the innocents, about which Tyrion and Varys had worried so much. Injustice and cruelty on that scale do not bode well for Daenerys. Grey Worm\u2019s troops could have gone to the Red Keep and captured Cersei. But Daenerys wanted total destruction. She will have to pay.<\/p>\n
And though we are on course for a classical ending, it\u2019s not at all apparent how that will be achieved. Since dying in dyads seems to be the new thing, it\u2019s conceivable that Jon could die with Daenerys, or that Tyrion could die with her. It\u2019s possible that Daenerys will abdicate the throne, recognizing her own unsuitability, and cede the throne to Jon, because she knows that Jon is loved and she is not. But I think we should believe Jon when he has said so many times that he does not want the throne. And yet, how could Jon go on living and not accept the throne, since by the rules it is his?<\/p>\n
As for the throne itself, I wonder if it isn\u2019t safe to suppose that the throne was destroyed and will never be used again. That probably bodes well for the future of the Seven Kingdoms. I expect the capital to move \u2014 to Winterfell. Was that snow falling in the final scenes, or ashes? When a heroine gets up from the rubble and storms away on a white horse, what can that foreshadow other than last-minute matters of urgent justice? Both Jon and Arya appear to have rethought their lives while Kings Landing burned. The setup for the final episode is as near-perfect as any mortal writer could make it.<\/p>\n
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Ken:<\/h2>\n
Morning David,<\/p>\n
GoT’s episode scores on Rotten Tomatoes are getting progressively worse. At this time, the latest episode, \u201cThe Bells,\u201d is less than fifty percent \u201cfresh.\u201d<\/p>\n
This is a bit surprising to me because I thought \u201cThe Bells\u201d was exceptional. Spectacular even. I agree with you that this might have been the finest hour in the history of television.<\/p>\n
That said, I think some of the criticism is probably valid, centered on the question of the Mad Queen: Was Dany\u2019s descent into madness true to her character? But the fact that we\u2019re asking this question is partly what makes it so exceptional. Her turn was both a surprise and a reasonable outcome. It is Martin at his best. Or Martin at his almost best.<\/p>\n
If you think her turn was too abrupt and too out of character, I can see why someone might hate this episode. Frankly, I don\u2019t know. Just an episode or two ago she seemed well adjusted. And she has been a beloved character for eight seasons, freeing slaves along the way, who has always done well to manage her worst instincts. So maybe it seemed a touch unpleasantly random<\/em>. I get that. That said, I respect the hell out of Martin for creating such a naughty story: We watch a young and charming idealist build power for eight seasons and then, at the last moment, she turns everything to ash. No other writer would be so bold. This defies all the norms of classic storytelling.<\/p>\n Maybe it could have been foreshadowed better? Maybe we should have seen more of her madness before she did what she did? One episode she\u2019s fighting alongside Jon in the north and she’s clearly got all of her wits. A few days later her hair is a mess, her eyes are wild, and then she\u2019s burning a city alive? I’m thinking that maybe her descent into madness could have been a bit more complete.<\/p>\n I suppose we also have to ask the question: What\u2019s in this for Dany, the breaker of chains? Why is conquering Westeros so important if you\u2019re just going to burn it to the ground? Why not take the remains of your army back to Essos, where you\u2019re loved?<\/p>\n I ask these questions because I\u2019m wondering if there was a point<\/em> to what just happened. Is this her breaking the wheel? Is this her ending tyranny? Did these people need to die and did the city need to burn for, as she says, the future generations of Westeros? Why does she even care about the future generations? I suppose the ultimate question is: Is there a larger point to her destiny (that doesn’t even factor in her own wellbeing)? Or is Martin saying that there is no such thing as destiny, and that Dany’s story is the story of a ruthless conquistador, who wrongly thinks they’re fighting for a higher purpose, when they’re not…<\/p>\n If there is a point, maybe “The Bells” lays the groundwork for a more peaceful empire, even if her life must be sacrificed along with the thousands of innocents in their crisped hovels and charred alleyways. Maybe this is just me trying to twist the narrative into what feels right and expected and narratively-coherent. But maybe Martin is saying \u201cnonsense\u201d to all of that. Maybe he\u2019s still breaking with the traditions of classic storytelling. And I love him for that; even he’s not leading us to a place where we can satisfyingly watch, in the last moments of the show, the king and queen united, and the kingdom at peace, just as the curtains close.<\/p>\n I\u2019m eager to discuss this more, but a few stray thoughts for now\u2026<\/p>\n – Sandor Clegane has long been my favorite character. His last moments with Arya were touching, and his death with his brother, though hard to watch, seemed like a proper end to his character. The makeup, costumes, and setting design (which too often go unnoticed) were top notch. These were like two gods duking it out on the peak of Olympus. To use an overused word, it was epic<\/em>. He died with his vital life force: revenge, plunging her brother, and himself, into the flames that made them who they were. Without his death, there may have been nothing to keep him going and nothing to feed his better instincts.<\/p>\n – I thought Jamie and Cersei\u2019s deaths were beautiful.<\/p>\n – One quibble with your review. I do not think Grey Worm was disturbed by the injustice, but that he was complicit in it. I believe it was him who hurled the spear at the Lannister army that\u2019d already surrendered. He let his mid-battle bloodlust get the best of him.<\/p>\n – I would be very upset if the Iron Throne was melted off camera. That\u2019s a hugely symbolic moment that I hope they\u2019ll show us next week.<\/p>\n – Very fascinating theory about Winterfell being the new capital. It\u2019s not a great port city or well positioned, but why not? Does Sansa somehow get to be queen? I don\u2019t see how that\u2019ll work. But you\u2019re right to imagine a whole bunch of successor scenarios, and dyads dying together.<\/p>\n – I thought the whole episode was a visual and cinematic spectacle. The camera work, the flames, the defenses, the rubble\u2026 It was a visual feast, but in a more honest way than what we saw in the zombie battle episode. Here, we saw pain, devastation, rape, murder, bloodlust. We saw the worst instincts of mankind. Has GoT said anything more honest?<\/p>\n – I think that is probably the last we\u2019ve seen from Arya, unless it\u2019s an image of her getting on a boat and sailing away. It was a fitting and beautiful end to her story.<\/p>\n – Emilia Clarke\u2019s acting was outstanding. The best we\u2019ve seen from her. Give her an Emmy.<\/p>\n – I don’t think it was in Missandei’s character to yell, “Dracarys!” in the last episode. Why is a former slave telling Dany to kill a whole bunch of innocent people? Where does Missandei’s rage come from? She was taken fairly in battle and given a swift death. It would have been more in character to tell Grey Worm and Dany that she loves them in her last moments. And that would have given Dany more<\/em> reason to do what she did.<\/p>\n – Will Dany snap out of her murderous delirium, and say, “What have I done?” Or is she the Mad Tyrant from now on?<\/p>\n – What\u2019s to be done? Tyrion and Jon and the rest are appropriately horrified. Will Dany take a sword in the back? By whom? I think the conventional storytelling arcs, if they\u2019re to be trusted, has the Mad Queen going down and the Just King taking her place on the Iron Throne. That would be the end that most satisfies the typical consumer of Western storytelling. But at this point it\u2019s fair to say, \u201cWho the hell knows.\u201d<\/p>\n I\u2019m so glad we agree on the quality of this episode. As for the progressively worse reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, that is very interesting. All I can suggest is that it\u2019s what I call \u201cvindictive\u201d reviewing, which I often see in Amazon book reviews that take a stand on a controversial subject. To a vindictive book reviewer, if you don\u2019t like the book\u2019s message, then it must be a bad book. By now, I suppose, so many people\u2019s pet ideas have been frustrated that they\u2019ve gotten vindictive because they haven\u2019t had their way. Maybe that\u2019s an advantage of my easy ability to suspend disbelief. I just go with it and don\u2019t complain very much. Not that I would do that with just any author. But I trust Martin.<\/p>\n To follow up on some of your observations:<\/p>\n \u2014 If Daenerys is mad, it comes and goes. We\u2019ve seen this before, as when she crucified the slave traders in Meereen. Though it was cruel overkill, that was an act of justice. As for the innocents inside the walls of King\u2019s Landing, surely Cersei deserves some of the blame for that. She brought them inside to use as shields. It\u2019s not that I\u2019m apologizing for Daenerys. I\u2019m only thinking of how, in Game of Thrones, there is never a sharp line between good and evil (except maybe for Jon). As for the state of Daenerys\u2019 soul, much depends on what she does next.<\/p>\n \u2014 That Sansa could end up as queen surely is a possibility. That the next king or queen should be loved seems to be a rule. Sansa is loved, though not as much as Jon is loved. As for the other rules of succession, one rule surely must be noble blood. In addition to Daenerys, that would leave Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Tyrion, and maybe Yara as candidates. If Martin or HBO violate the rules of classic storytelling, it\u2019s even possible that we don\u2019t even end up with a winner. Instead we end up with a failed state, and winter coming. Yikes.<\/p>\n \u2014 That Arya\u2019s storming away on a white horse was the last we\u2019ll see of her makes sense. But what would she do? Wander, with winter coming on? I think she sees Winterfell as her home. She loves her siblings. Surely she will return there. The opening scenes of the next episode could be in some unexpected place, as part of the endplot. But I\u2019m guessing that we\u2019ll go to Winterfell next.<\/p>\n Having said that I trust Martin and willingly suspend disbelief for him, it would be a huge blow to my psyche and to my sense of story if we get a twisted ending with whiffs of nihilism and more injustice and unhappiness than I can stomach. Still, it\u2019s a great credit to Martin as a writer that with an hour to go, anything could happen.<\/p>\n Scanning the reviews, it appears the biggest gripe is about Dany’s unearned turn from idealist wannabe queen to genocidal nutcase. They have a point. All of a sudden she becomes her crazy father, even though she hasn’t exhibited any real symptoms. I think we have to ask ourselves if this is indeed truly bad storytelling. You’re right that she’s judiciously executed others (usually individuals or slaveowners in small groups), but never have we seen her kill innocents, and I don’t think Cersei can take any of the blame for that. The battle had been won. Soldiers were surrendering and the bells were ringing. The people weren’t at all being used as shields. Dany had gone full-on crazy. No one can be on Team Dany anymore, and that’s got to be very hard for fans. She might be able to make a better decisions after she wakes from her bloodlust, but I don’t think there’s anything to be salvaged. Even kind gestures will not change the fact that a beloved character’s soul has turned rotten for good.<\/p>\n I don’t think you’re appreciating the gravity of her crimes. I suppose I’m suggesting that the criticism of the episode isn’t entirely vindictive and that there are reasonable complaints. I loved the episode, but it might have been a bit more logical if we’d seen her turn foreshadowed better.<\/p>\n I’ll say it again, though: this was a magnificent episode. I’ve had my issues with the show, as you know. I thought the writers committed a dereliction of duty by failing to bring cosmological closure to the White Walkers. I thought there’s been a few too many cheesy action scenes. The last two seasons have been out of pace with the rest of the series. I thought the political machinations (so clever at first!) have gotten dumber over the seasons. I could go on. But I think this episode makes up for missteps. I think the show has found its footing for the finale. GoT is not perfect, for all the reasons I’ve shared these past few weeks, but at this point it knows where it’s going and is poised to conclude grandly.<\/p>\n — I think you’re right about Dany coming to her senses. Perhaps abdication is her way of regaining a tiny bit nobility after her genocide. Giving the Throne to Jon and heading back to rule Essos would be for the greater good, but I’m doubtful it ends that cleanly.<\/p>\n — I could be wrong, but I do think that that’s the last we’ll see of Arya. She’ll be a better sort of Clegane. A knight errant, but one who’s not driven by hatred or revenge. I do not think she’ll return to Winterfell. She said as much to Clegane on their path to King’s Landing.<\/p>\n — Care to make any predictions of where everyone winds up? Mine:<\/p>\n Bran<\/strong> crawls into a Weirwood tree and lives among its roots. Who am I forgetting?<\/p>\n If it turns out to be true that Daenerys has succumbed to the Targaryen madness, then I think I\u2019ll continue to be the contrarian here and say that it was decently foreshadowed. In researching the history of the Mad King, this turned up:<\/p>\n “The Mad King was obsessed with it. He loved to watch people burn, the way their skin blackened and blistered and melted off their bones. He burned lords he didn’t like. He burned Hands who disobeyed him. He burned anyone who was against him. Before long, half the country was against him. Aerys saw traitors everywhere. So he had his pyromancers place caches of wildfire all over the city. Beneath the Sept of Baelor and the slums of Flea Bottom. Under houses, stables, taverns. Even beneath the Red Keep itself.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n \u2015Ser Jaime Lannister<\/p>\n Did you notice how, as King\u2019s Landing was burning, there were bursts of green fire here and there? That, I would assume, would be leftover caches of the Mad King\u2019s wildfire, connecting lots of dots.<\/p>\n This is not looking good for Daenerys. I feel for the fans who loved her. She is very likeable, when she isn\u2019t cruel. If there was a last straw that tipped her over the edge emotionally (and there were many recent provocations including the murder of Missandei and Varys\u2019 treason), then I\u2019d say it was her last scene with Jon, in which she realized that she had lost him. Jon might have been her last connection to a world of good.<\/p>\n Indeed, there’s plenty of foreshadowing to draw from. She’s mercilessly burnt many and it’s in her DNA. But she’s also amazingly resilient. At the end of Season One, she’d lost her man, all the Dothraki, even the clothes she wore. All she had was Jorah and few Dothraki stragglers (and three baby dragons). Yet she believed in herself and prevailed. I don’t know if it’s right that her recent losses merit her complete plunge into madness. Yes, she’s lost a lot. (Jorah, Missandei, two dragons, half an army, and a romance with Jon). But she still had a lot! (Friendship with Jon, a dragon, half an army, various cities to the east under her influence, her health, her youth, etc.) There is nothing about King’s Landing or the Lannisters that should summon the degree of rage she exhibited, at least on the surface level. (I’m open to hear deeper, more psychological explanations tying in her unusual relationship with Westeros as her birth country, not to mention her murdered parents or messed up family life.)<\/p>\n I see this all as a healthy debate and I’m definitely not firmly on the critics’ side; I merely think such criticisms (at least as we’ve framed the debate) are healthy literary criticisms. I think I would only argue, as Josh has articulated for me, that we needed to see more psychic breakdown between the zombie battle and the King’s Landing battle.<\/p>\n Ken Ilgunas and David Dalton are reviewing each episode of the final season of Game of Thrones. Check the \u201cGame of Thrones\u201d category to list all of these posts. David: Mornin\u2019, Ken \u2026 We just watched, I believe, the most extraordinary television episode ever made. It wasn\u2019t just the spectacle, which topped all the previous … Continue reading “Season 8, episode 5 (2 updates)”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[55],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15985","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-game-of-thrones"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15985","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=15985"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15985\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":15995,"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15985\/revisions\/15995"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=15985"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=15985"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/acornabbey.com\/blog\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=15985"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
\nUpdate 1:<\/h2>\n
David:<\/h2>\n
\nKen:<\/h2>\n
\nDany<\/strong> gets murdered.
\nGrey Worm<\/strong> dies defending Dany.
\nJon<\/strong>‘s the reluctant king with Davos as his hand.
\nSansa<\/strong> either becomes Jon’s hand or rules as warden of the north.
\nTyrion<\/strong> dies. I’m not sure where he belongs…
\nBrienne<\/strong> is the captain of the King’s Guard.
\nBronne<\/strong>? No idea.
\nArya<\/strong> sails off the west coast into waters unknown.
\nSam<\/strong> becomes grand maester of Citadel.
\nYara<\/strong> is never on camera again.<\/p>\n
\nUpdate 2:<\/h2>\n
David:<\/h2>\n
\nKen:<\/h2>\n
\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"