Ken Ilgunas and David Dalton are reviewing each episode of the final season of Game of Thrones. Check the “Game of Thrones” category to list all of these posts.
Many thanks to all who have come here to read these posts, and to all who have commented. It has been a lot of fun, and no doubt Ken and David will do more co-reviewing in the future as suitable material comes along.
Ken:
Morning David,
Were you as sad as I was to see the credits roll? This has been the best series I’ve ever watched, and it’s played a small but special role in my emotional life of the past 9 years. We are still in the golden age of television, so perhaps we’ll be surprised again in our lifetimes, but for now there’ll be a big hole that GoT had occupied for a quarter of my life.
As for this episode, it was solid, if unflashy. There are probably some fans who cannot forgive the show for what it did to Dany, who was practically a Nazi empress in the end. I have my sympathies with them, as you know, but if we can accept the plot and forgive the writers their mistakes, I think this was a good enough episode to conclude a legendary series. Stray thoughts…
– There seemed to be two episodes in episode. The first one ended when Drogon turns the Iron Throne into lava. The second one begins with the constitutional convention outside of the city with all the remaining lords and ladies of note. There was dissonance between the two, and I wish they’d broken this episode into two. The moment when Jon kills Dany was such a HUGE moment, but yet it felt improperly placed at roughly the twenty-minute mark of the episode. Think of how dramatic that scene could have been if they’d ended the episode with it. You can’t kill Ned Stark on the third minute. You can’t kill Jon Snow in episode two of a season. Timing matters. Placement matters. And to maximize the gravity of that scene, and to simply do respect to such an important character, you have to give her the dignity of dying in the last moments of an episode.
– After that scene, it was as if a new director took over. It flowed awkwardly into the constitutional convention, which is the sort of scene that isn’t a strength of the show. Later on, the camera work following the backs of the characters’ heads is the sort of scene I’d typically love, but I found it a touch confusing and rushed.
– Does everything fit together? You know I’m unhappy that we didn’t get any closure to the magical and fantasy side of the show (The Night King, the fire religion, etc.), but I think we got good closure for the political situation and for the characters. Dany did indeed break the wheel, and Westeros has evolved into a crude republic. Arya got to go on her adventure, Sansa got to Brexit the north from the realm, and Jon got to live a free life. I’m sure many of us were hoping it would be Jon on the Iron Throne, but Bran makes sense, and it’s nice to know Jon will get to live a life, wild and free, in a land he felt drawn to, and where he’ll have many adventures. (Let’s just hope there’s no “King of the Wildlings” spinoff series.)
– Why did Drogon melt the Iron Throne? Was that rage or wisdom?
– If you’re George R.R. Martin, how do you feel watching this episode?
– What are your thoughts?
David:
Mornin’, Ken …
Well, here we are. This is the first day of the rest of our lives after Game of Thrones. On this hard day, we snap back to the “real” world and think about how the story has changed us. Having immersed ourselves in a collective experience (we have so few of them), we’re on our own again. It doesn’t help that when we squint and peer into the harsh light of the real world, as though we’ve just emerged from a dark theater, we see that we’re in a big mess. Maybe we don’t have to completely let go of Game of Thrones, though. As we look back at the series, there are a great many metaphors and encrypted meanings to be mined. In fact I think that the final episode points us in that direction and encourages us to get to work to fix this world. Where should our characters go next, and what must we do?
I do have some dissatisfactions. For one, I think we needed more catharsis. At least this episode slowed down and gave us time to think and time to feel. But I agree with you that it would have been better as two episodes. On the stage, there is a wonderful part of the show that film does not have — the curtain call. On the stage, the catharsis will have occurred during the last minutes of the drama, but somehow the curtain call seals and verifies the catharsis and smoothes the transition back to the real world. Some films try to replicate this experience by showing portraits of all the characters as the credits roll, revisiting key scenes. Something like that would have been a great help with Game of Thrones.
The story did indeed follow a classical trajectory, and for that I am extremely grateful. On the whole, the good were rewarded, the wicked were punished, and the surviving characters have a path to their hearts’ desire even if they have not yet achieved it. I don’t want to quibble, especially on the day that we’ve arrived at the end and all of us are in need of therapy. But I do think that there are too many loose ends and too many ill-fitting elements that seem to have been contrapted. At the end of the previous episode, in which Daenerys broke bad, I still hoped for something closer to perfection. But now I would agree that the final two episodes could have been better. Was it Martin’s touch that was lacking? If so, will Martin’s forthcoming books do a better job?
When Drogon melted the Iron Throne, I saw it as both rage and wisdom — rage that the throne was the thing that Daenerys died for, and wisdom that it wasn’t worth it. Drogon no doubt felt rage toward Jon but decided to spare Jon and direct the rage toward the throne.
Though many people had recently guessed that Bran would end up as king, it still rates as a major surprise, I think. Martin is telling us something with that — the importance of qualifications that come with being broken, abstract, reserved, and far-seeing, as opposed to a person of all action and a great deal of talk. I think that Martin also is telling us something with what you called the constitutional convention, in which everyone, including the lord only of onions, gets a vote. As for how George R.R. Martin might feel watching this episode, my guess would be that he saw the flaws more clearly than anyone and that his energy for finishing the final volumes is greatly renewed. At least I hope so. We do have that to look forward to — reading the last two books.
Ken:
Let’s start with quibbles….
Why did the show-makers have to rush these past two seasons, and these last two episodes? I doubt that there were logistical impediments. By now, they had obscene budgets. The actors were all in. The fans were happy to wait an extra year to give them a chance to get everything right. HBO would have loved to have millions of people visiting their site and channel for a few more weeks, right?
But yet it all felt rushed. It’s such a shame because there were so many things that could have been developed, starting with closure to the Night King plot. There was some mysterious connection between the dead, climate change, and magic, and I think this would have been difficult (but rich and complex and one-of-a-kind) storytelling if they’d really taken the time to sort it all out. And time and resources they had! There were so many more little conversations that could have happened. Just put a slosh of wine in two cups and have a pair of characters talk for a scene. This could have made these last two seasons feel less rushed, and it would have given the writers more opportunity to better tie up everyone’s story. It could have made Dany’s turn less abrupt. And this is the sort of scene that isn’t that expensive to produce.
As for the curtain call, wasn’t Arya on the boat and Jon on her horse in the woods enough, or did you think the curtain call could have been longer and richer? Or are you suggesting we actually see the characters as actors? I think I’m with you, but I’m not sure how much more we need. Jon erecting a teepee or winking at a wildling? How would you have orchestrated a proper curtain call?
What about catharsis for the hundreds of thousands of commoners who’ve been pounded into the dirt by years of war and flame? Yes, this has always been a story about lords and ladies (it’s a Game of Thrones after all) as well as the few commoners bright or talented enough to climb the ranks (such as Davos and Bronn…). I’m not trying to sound sanctimonious here; I’m merely making the point that the Westeros world-building feels a little empty without having true commoner characters and points of view. I know I’m beating a dead horse, but I want to beat it one last time. We see everything from the point of view of a few conveniently-born characters, and never (except when they’re being incinerated) the people of Westeros. And Westeros is more the people than the elite, right? They experience years of warfare and genocide, but we don’t get to hear their complaints or calls for justice. There should have been a voice from the King’s Landing masses who called for the heads of every lord and lady after the most recent incineration. In reality, that kingdom ought to be ripe for a French Revolution. I suppose we got a bit of this with the Grand Sparrow and his religious uprising, but I feel like the show has failed to give the people their proper ending.
That said, I’m fine with the show ending as a crude republic (“oligarchy” might be a better term). Democracy can’t sprout up from just anything, even ashes. And this Iron Age empire just wasn’t prepared for it, but we have seen positive incremental change, and that, as a form of government, is good enough for me, even if the wheel is still sort of rolling.
I think Bran as king could have been set up better. We’ve seen that Bran has knowledge and that he’s level-headed. And yes, there are virtues to having been broken, or from having lived a hard life. But have we seen any leadership from Bran? Couldn’t the show have done a better job either emphasizing his supernatural gifts or his fitness for office? I suppose I don’t think the show integrated the three-eye raven part of his character with his new role as king. Is Martin saying leaders should be like three-eyed ravens? If so, I’m not sure what that means. I thought Bran might end up living in the roots of a weirwood tree, like the last three-eyed raven, but what was even that dude’s role, other than being the keeper of knowledge? Maybe there’s something here, but it all feels a bit muddled to me… The problem with Bran, at bottom, is that we saw him collecting information, and not necessarily wisdom. Wisdom requires a bit of suffering, and while Bran has certainly suffered on his journeys, I’m speaking more to his vision quests and time-traveling journeys, on which he seemed like artificial intelligence gathering data about humans, and not quite a human, living and learning. That fact that he’s this autistic Spock-like creature in the end emphasizes this problem.
Okay, less quibbling…
GoT is such a groundbreaking show because it has done things no show has attempted to do. Can you think of a plot that is as long and interwoven as GoT’s? Yes, much of it clearly was not figured out ahead of time. But a lot of it was (seasons 1-6, I’d argue), and I do think the big things were: that Dany would turn, that Jon would stab her, that Arya would kill the Night King, and that Bran would be king. Such storytelling is a monumental and, to my knowledge, un-replicated feat. It was imperfectly executed, but nothing comes close to rivaling the epic length and complexity of the story.
The show’s display of political backstabbing spoke to the cynicism we have for our politicians. The threat of the Night King and a long winter spoke to our looming worries of overpopulation and climate change. That our favorite characters died and terrible people came to wield power speaks to our own experiences in our own countries. The death and devastation and treachery, the idealistic dying and the powerful prevailing, all felt strangely comforting. That’s because this fantasy show was more real than reality TV. It exposed conventional storytelling narratives for the fakes they are, always letting the superhero miraculously survive and triumph. Like our world, it was a savage, gritty, predatory universe. Whether by luck or design, GoT was the perfect show for the 21st Century. It failed when it swept plots under the rug (“winter is coming”), but it succeeded in tapping into the zeitgeist and into our psyches to tell a story that spoke to our gravest concerns and sincerest hopes—hopes for a better world. It tells us to go on long journeys. To suffer so we can empathize with others. To play fair, but when you play, play to win. To take incremental change when you can get it. To put the wise in power. To let the kind and savvy advise him/her. To kill the tyrants. To live free. To explore. To Brexit (?). To let go of your longings for hateful revenge. And, all the while, to make the world as you wish it to be, while always seeing it for what it is, good and evil and everything in between.
David:
Very good thoughts and good words, Ken. For now, I have only two small things to mention.
By curtain call, I was thinking about brief clips of scenes that include the characters who did not survive until the end. (The film version of “History Boys,” for example, has a kind of virtual curtain call at the end, the dead included. That was very effective and helps to give emotional closure. Doesn’t “Princess Bride” do that, too?)
You mention the Iron Age. Let’s hear it for the Iron Age! One of the many things that made Game of Thrones so enjoyable was being able to spend so much time in an Iron Age world — horses, wind-powered ships, buildings of stone, lots of fireplaces, rough roads, long travel times, terrain unspoiled by heavy machinery, artisans rather than factories. One of my dreams for the real world is that, whether accidentally or intentionally, most of our technologies fall back to the Iron Age.
For an update, I’d like to think some more about science fiction and fantasy fiction (and film) in general and how Game of Thrones has advanced the state of the art.
9 Comments
I was a bit disappointed in the finale. They had some good moments in the first half of the episode. I was really hoping they’d rebalance Dany’s character – showing some of her goodness rather than having her speak to her military in a scene that was clearly meant to reflect Nazi rallies. I would have rather they continue to blend the conventional ideas of good and evil right through the end. This made me a less enthusiastic about the previous episode. You could say that I was hoping they would not opt for the classical ending that David was counting on.
Nevertheless, I could have enjoyed it plenty if it were executed better, and agree with many of your complaints and suggestions. I totally agree with Ken’s position that Dany’s death should have ended the episode. It couldn’t have been that much to break that episode into two, add 10 minutes of simple footage to each episode and it would have been done much better.
They’ve earned much of the criticism they’ve been getting for rushing things along in the story despite the huge amount of time and budget they were given. Contrast this season with Season 2, when dialogue and character development were favored over the spectacles they favored this season. The Battle of Whispering Wood is never shown, nor did it need to be – it was one of the best seasons of the series.
I was also frustrated by the gap in time between the two parts of the episode. I’m just not buying that Gray Worm wouldn’t act in rage given his current mindset and the fact his queen was just murdered. Peter Dinklage did a wonderful job in this episode, but I’m not buying that his speech was going to convince all the nobles that the weirdo in the wheelchair should be King. As a sidenote, it’s our shared journey, and not one person’s tale that brings us together. I wish Tyrion would have spoken to the value of shared history rather than Bran’s personal story as what “unites us” and makes Bran a good choice.
There are subtle hints about Bran throughout the season that I wish we were given more of, in line with Ken’s suggestion. For instance when Jon says “I wish I could have been there for you when you needed me most”, Bran said “you are exactly where you are supposed to be”. Was he pulling the strings behind all of this? It’ll be something to look out for more when I rewatch the season, but my guess is they could have spent much more time on this front.
In the end, these are “quibbles” as Ken put it. Its been the best form of entertainment – gives me something to look forward to, enjoy in the moment, and dwell on afterwards. It was a shared cultural experience for so many, a gift we have far too few of.
Hello David and Ken, I’m still so sad that Game of Thrones has ended.. I enjoyed your reviews very much and today I feel same as you. As the credits were rolling last night, so were my tears. I got teary as Jon said goodbye to Arya as well. It reminded me of the first season before he left for Castle Black. It also had a bit of LOTR Return of the King feeling. I’ve felt the same way all through this season that it did feel rushed but still I can’t see if there will ever be another show that will move me as Game of Thrones did. I said this last night and I’ll say it again: I don’t know if there will ever be as great of a show that Game of Thrones was and for a big part of it all thanks goes to GRRM..
I’m with Ken. The whole season felt rushed and I was really looking for some Night King closure. I kept waiting for that ah-ha moment where everything comes full circle, but it didn’t happen.
After episode 5, I figured Dany would be killed and Jon would be the one to do it. I sort of feel like it’s the beginning all over again. The “bastard” son is cast out and the legitimate heir is on the throne. I guess the only reason to reveal that he was a Targaryen, was to make everyone (or those who knew) question if Dany was the right leader. Which set the stage for her death.
I’m kind of bummed with this whole season. There were a couple of really great episodes, but overall, I’m (just) OK with how everything turned out. Really enjoyed the dialogue over the past few weeks though!
Interjecting a non-sequitur of mine which might thread-in with the Bran enigma . . .
As shown prior, and resonates, what has transcended the succulent, bold, iron-edged writing and vision (and by extension the show) all along is Martin’s vast untold knowledge and delineation of history, histories recorded, and literary works . . .
And the moving pieces that provide a rooted familiarity and sounding depth we feel akin to even if never located before.
Just a tinge of something else . . .
Being a huge fan of Robert Graves and his ‘I, Claudius’ volumes of the 1930’s, I was drawn early on in the books and show to be struck with the feeling (though I could be alone in postulating this) that GRRM was kindredly familiar in the world of books and tales and pulled a stock of shadows and inspiration from that particular work (and many others I’m sure, I’ve seen him admit to looking to obscure history). Coincidentally, ‘I, Claudius’ chronicles the Julii emperors, but through first-person in the eyes of the most unlikely to survive or be important, and therefore least regarded — as the ‘broken’ useless member of that family — Claudius.
Caligula is certainly a resurrected living spirit inside Joffrey as tyrant — not a stretch; Tiberius as Tywin Lannister; Cersei/Livia, &c, and I think the lingering castoffs in hereditary bloodline as ‘rejected, broken, discarded, overlooked’ motif is not precisely or identically translated, of course, but just a little bit inherent in the stricken characters of Bran and Tyrion.
The least to reach implying the most fit to rule if the most unlikely?
At the quiet end of the madness, destruction and carnage, Claudius was nothing more considered than available, and the last one thought of to rule Rome because he had no ambition. This made him no threat. After all the mad caesars, his immediate family were dead/murdered — the wars and intrigue — the plotting and strategizing around the throne. He remained aloof to it if not otherwise directly entangled. — Claudius, the reluctant Caesar, never making claim for rule, preferring libraries and writing histories — only known as Claudius the Stammerer, the forgotten one with deformity in his limbs.
Obviously I like to shade in and I don’t think GRRM ever directly lines up historical figures/events/previously written works to his protagonists (that would be absurd) but for me, anyway, the themes are there and the richness by inheritance feels like it’s there.
It’s not an answer that’s entirely satisfactory to the justification for rule or the story or maybe even the most inspiring of outcomes, but it’s a shocking, (not unknown to Roman history), if plausible scenario.
That’s my little take on the Bran as king disappointment/controversy.
Though Dany’s fall may have been rendered abruptly (so was the red wedding, though — GRRM likes it on his toes) I find it to be unsurprising in some respects that the time of the Targaryen dynasty was meant to gasp its last breath, even if the original intent for a benevolent return was promised. Instead a new, very rough and new, age begins. This always felt right to me in the portents that Winter was coming to drown fire. But it could be I just love metaphors and cling to them too much. 🙂
I also find it an elegant story arc that after the shockwave horror of the Stark fatalities so early on beginning with the death of ‘the man that passes the sentence swings the sword’ Ned Stark (that initiated our champions to be tried by fire) — the circle closes with one of his children acquiring a lasting leadership role, and by that end — a Stark not sitting the (obliterated) iron throne feels just and complete since Ned never desired it in his battles and perhaps even loathed it to begin with.
I have a question. Is there any kind of game theory at play in this Game of Thrones?
I recall a scene in ‘A Beautiful Mind’ where it’s figured out in a bar that too many are equally matched, and mathematically, no one gets the hot girl. Something to that effect.
In this vein, do Daenerys and Jon cancel each other out that way? Were GRRM or the writers even thinking on those terms?
Last musing
Winter’s extraordinary forces are sorely missing and there should, in theory at least, have been some time and money for this — as well as fleshing out and making climactic sense of the deeper mysteries and redolent magic of the weirwoods, the ‘old gods’, the fire religion, the Night King, the role of the dead, the wall, the greater history of Westeros . . . . on and on.
Martin, don’t leave these unsung.
We’re like Romeo under the balcony — ‘O, wilt thou leave me . . . ?’
You are the invocation of the Grand Maester and the Citadel, with the keen, protective eye of Samwell Tarley. Night gathers, and now our watch begins.
Josh, Amela, Grace, and Malinda: For now I’d like to just acknowledge and thank you for your comments, while I reflect and try to catch up on my house and garden chores.
I was just saying to Ken in an email that the quality of the discussion here takes me back about 35 years. During the Golden Age of computer bulletin board systems, I ran a very literate BBS named Science Fiction Writers Network, which was allied with SFWA — Science Fiction Writers of America. Orson Scott Card, who won both a Nebula and a Hugo in 1985 for “Ender’s Game,” became in many ways a co-sysop with me. We threw a congratulatory dinner for him in Greensboro, North Carolina, where he still lives. Several science fiction luminaries were regular visitors, but most were fans and serious readers. It was one of the most literary (and civil) places on what subsequently became the Internet, though modems and dial-up phones are how it was done back then.
This reminds me of that. We must look for ways to continue it.
*Update from the source himself.
Happily it seems there’s even a motley list of new characters to look forward to that never made it to screen.
Undoubtedly as suggested this means there’ll be a remake of the show one far distant day to accomodate so much that’s been left out or altered. But for now all things considered, beautiful flaws and all, its spectacle does reign supreme. Parting is such sweet sorrow . . .
Meanwhile, though, can anything new be decifered from the cryptic code of the creator? 🙂
‘ And on Monday night, Martin assured fans the books won’t march in lockstep with the show.
“How will it all end?” Martin wrote on his site, Not A Blog. “The same ending as the show? Different? Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes.”
“I’ll write it. You read it,” Martin wrote. “Then everyone can make up their own mind, and argue about it on the internet.” ‘
https://www.cnet.com/news/game-of-thrones-new-books-will-be-different-from-show-finale/?ftag=COS-05-10-aaa0a&linkId=67812052&fbclid=IwAR0ilEagwa0wpQ6DzTvwrm6hkRZr1Ku9-L-cjRWzS4nE8jBq2uf3jjWC2Uo
—David
I enjoyed what you said about the message boards of yore and now and it’s been such a highlight to tag along for everyone’s superb stray thoughts and quibbles, queries and exultations.
I’m familiar with Orson Scott Card and Ender’s Game. I remember not super long ago, I read an introduction he wrote for one of his books that I liked where he depicted what he’d been attracted to reading and discovering in childhood, (specifically I think in regard to all kinds of strategic war history and mostly Civil War history). A passion that then led him to dream up his books. I recall mostly because of the way he talked about Bruce Catton’s Trilogy of the Civil War being something that gave much of its shape to his world — that and being Mormon, (which piqued my curiosity at the time as an ex-Mormon.)
I’d been particularly looking forward to committing to read that trilogy myself and I’d had the books already a long time . . .
I’d have to go back to that Intro to be certain, but dissecting Catton may have been where he said he first thought up Ender’s Game.
This is a good reminder that I still need to read the Catton Trilogy . . . !
anyway how cool that he was part of your group and you all had such an impressionable time.
Three years ago I was part of a literary/philosophy Salon group that used to meet on purpose to discuss controversies, pop culture, and a range of topics and books or media, and it was always civil (we chose each other that way) and for better or worse is still one of the most memorable things I’ve been a part of.
I’ve also just read a book about a woman who survived Katrina in New Orleans and afterward created an ECRG (existential crisis reading group) as a cathartic response to all that. Her group called itself The Futilitarians. 🙂
I watched the final episode of GoT twice. The first time was in real time on HBO at the time it aired. The second was later in the week. Watching it in real time was an exhilarating experience, as though I was part of a collective spectator experience.
I think one of the reasons why GoT became so popular was that it tapped into the collective unconscious of the human psyche with the use of powerful archetypes and metaphors. Even though the setting was a Middle Ages magical realm, people felt that the struggles of the characters were similar to the interpersonal and political dramas of today.
Psychologically GoT had something for everyone in terms of diversity and identity. It seemed as though no matter who you are in today’s society, everyone could see themselves represented in at least one of the characters on the show. Whether you are dealing with physical disabilities, in love with your sister or brother or other family member, LGBT or straight, liberal or conservative, rich or poor, man or woman, adult or child, and whatever race or ethnicity you happen to be. All of us felt represented in this show. It was a collective experience.
At the beginning of the show it was clear that this was a different planet than the Earth. This set the stage for a Sci-Fi element to the story. And it is similar to the Star Wars trope “Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away…” This helps people to suspend their disbelief. However, as the story goes on, and the plot thickens, people start to see themselves in the characters. And, for those insightful enough, how the story is a reflection of our current culture and politics.
I think it was important to show that the shadow of the human psyche is in all of us, and GoT did an excellent job of showing not only the light sides of people but their dark sides as well. The Dragon Queen started off as a benevolent character, freeing people from slavery and so forth. However, in the end, when she felt wronged, her anger took over. Her anger quickly turned into hatred, which led to the deaths of over a million innocent people. This reminded me of when Anakin Skywalker transformed into Darth Vader in Star Wars Episode 3 – Revenge of the Sith. It was a sudden transformation from light to dark. It was a choice that was made in the moment. “It’s amazing how quickly things can go from bad to total shit storm.” (Intro from the movie Zombieland). When light transforms into darkness, it is a quick process. It seems sudden. But, the transformation had earlier echoes in the characters’ actions.
The symbolism of the white horse as a beacon of hope. The Iron Throne finally being destroyed by the fire of the dragon grieving the loss of his mother. The dagger in the heart between two crossed lovers to prevent a fascist dictatorship. All of these symbolic things helped to resolve the epic tensions of the storyline.
The final scene of Jon Snow on the white horse traveling into the snowy woods felt right. As though the hero was free to go on his own path, make his own way into the unknown, away from all of the usual drama of normal society. It felt like a return to nature, an acceptance that civilization Had not evolved enough for him to be entangled with it any longer.
Carl Gustav Jung said, “Knowing your own darkness is the best method for dealing with the darknesses of other people.” Jon Snow died and then was incredibly brought back to life. His experience of death showed him that the struggles for power and esteem are meaningless. He realized that the only things that matter are kindness toward others and love. He could see that the Dragon Queen’s love of power had eclipsed her love for him. He knew that the danger he posed to the world outweighed his own selfish desires to be with her. He knew that the only way to reduce the suffering and darkness of the world was to finally kill her in an act of selfless love. This final act coincides with what Carl Gustav Jung also said, “As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.”
James-Michael: Very good Jungian analysis … and also a good reminder that what we truly loved about this show were the characters.
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